Doesn't that rather limit you to three main battles only , Normandy, Arnhem and Bulge ? Unless you want to forget any pretence at history and assume they were at Caen , Berlin and Moscow ?
OOPs Heide made the point first !
TBH it's as limiting as playing Gross Deutchsland , who battled nearly exclusively on the Eastern Front
Sh*t happens!
Uh huh .
Oh well it's a choice I suppose.
With the Battle of the Bulge being covered twice now, and the last Arnhem a soley Brit vs Germans affair ( as it was historically ) then you only left with a few games where you can fit in, or endlessly replaying the Normandy Campaign . I just hope the fledgling US airborne group gives this some thought too .
It also depends how long people have been into the WW2 side of things. A lot of the old hands will have kit for several sides/units, newer players will get what they like and play in it for some time before potentially venturing onto another unit or nation.
This is compounded when teams form, and its not a case of one person wanting a change/wanting to play a certain game, its rule by committee.
Yes but just because someone's a member of a team or group doesn't mean that they can't play outside of that sometimes, does it?
The points about generic Heer (or even SS and FJ for that matter) for the Germans, or unbadged battledress (requiring only a cap badge or beret change) for the Brits are very good ones and certainly don't exclude anyone who "only" has one set of kit, if they spend their money wisely, they have no problems getting it right for ANY game. For the yanks it seems to be different at the moment. Hopefully, having a structured group for them will go some way to alleviating the amount of 101st that are out there.
Obviously, I'm referring to CiA and PBI games (ie, not run for profit), where a proper historical perspective is placed on the scenario, rather than a free for all.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
I have no allegiance to any given unit,as the fact that I have worn a different uniform at every CiA game I've been to will testify. 
I obviously have personal preferences but I am prepared to play any unit if required as I'd rather join in wearing borrowed kit than miss out altogether.
I do get the sense that players in certain camps are unwilling to be flexible and adjust their kit in order to conform to the organisers wishes, which strikes me as a little strange. I believe that players should do their upmost, within their given financial and time contraints, to adapt their kit to a given scenario as that way everybody is able to get the most from it. By not doing so I feel you have to question your motivation for being there and wonder if you're being selfish in detracting from other peoples game experience by only doing what you want to do.
I believe that players should do their upmost, within their given financial and time contraints, to adapt their kit to a given scenario as that way everybody is able to get the most from it. By not doing so I feel you have to question your motivation for being there and wonder if you're being selfish in detracting from other peoples game experience by only doing what you want to do.
QFT! Absolutely right! You've hit the nail right on the head there. 
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Americans are just as easy to alter as any other. The only major differences are between the Infantry and Airborne. Either kit without badges would work fine for any Infantry/Glider or Airborne unit respectively. The main difference comes with the early/late war issue uniforms, like with every other group.
Meh, I got around this problem a while ago. It's why I have numerous German tunics badged to different Divisions - so I can pretty much cover anything that the W-SS were involved in on either the Western or Eastern fronts. Reason for it was simple. I'd rather give the credit card a good bashing than having to keep resewing sodding cuff titles 
Now, with respect to playing the other side, i've been putting a US 44 onwards Infantry uniform together. Sod all insignia (Have a look at pics of US M43's - you'll find a damn sight more photos of troops without insignia in the combat area than those with it)
Problem is that wearing US gear makes me feel....................slovenly 
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
Right, this is all getting a bit odd.
On the one side you have rules for look-a-like uniforms, look-a-like weapons, etc, etc and on the other you're saying badge to the historic unit involved or be happy playing generic every game.
Are you inclusive, or non-inclusive?
I think what they mean is if you can crash out on spending alot of money on a full US airborne kit from SOF then you can easily spend an extra £2 on a badge so you are the right unit fo say........Operation Husky.
Right, this is all getting a bit odd.
On the one side you have rules for look-a-like uniforms, look-a-like weapons, etc, etc and on the other you're saying badge to the historic unit involved or be happy playing generic every game.
Are you inclusive, or non-inclusive?
Well that could be part of a wider debate....
One Side
I'm skint , want to get into WW2 and therefore turn up to an event or two in look a like kit before commiting cash to it .
Other side
I've spent fecking '00's to get the right kit , well researched and getting into the zone , which is put off by half a dozen people dressed in flectarn .
There's merit to both sides, although without hijacking Gadges thread , I think it was more along the lines of why obsess over one unit , why not spread yourself over different units and even different side
PS Those rules were written when there were only a handful of WW2 airsofters around and we could all name each other , the whole scene has moved on quite a bit since then , hence the debate
Re badging for an event especially if for a particualr event in WWII shouldn't be a problem. Re-enactors had to do something similar last year. Big Market Garden gig so any Axis guys taking part in the public battle either had to re-badge to 9th or 10th SS. Or they had to wear a smock. As part of their own static diplays they went back to thier own unit insignia. Pretty easy for the SS guys. Some just bought new cuff titles and attached them with either velcro or pins for the battles.
Judging from the amount of kit people have now adays and the prices of tunics and insignia its not impossible for people to have several impressions anyway.
Group loyalty will play a part for some. Re-enacting can be a bitch for the silly political games that goes on between groups. Often to the detrement of the hobby. I think some even saw WWII airsoft as a breath of fresh air as things didn't seem to be so full on. Seems to be moves in the right direction with talks especially amongst some SS re-enactors of getiing a second tunic and rebading as Heer. The hope is at a future event everyone will portray Heer and put on an impressive diplay for the public.
I don't think anyone who buys "lookalike" kit would be badging up as anything in particular anyway, they're just keen to try WW2 airsoft but don't want to, or can't afford to, spend a lot of money on something they don't even know if they will like and they are to be commended for getting involved.
It's the people who go and spend a wad of cash on an outfit for their first WW2 game and spend it unwisely on inappropriate insignia/bling/rank, et al and then think that it's suitable for all future games that should be questioning why they are doing WW2 airsoft. They may as well get some multicam and a SCAR and play month in, month out at a walt game like stirling put on, with little or no variation and an "all comers" attitude, as modern themed games would probably suit their attitudes and approach better.
With a bit of thought, someone who's determined to get the "right" kit from the outset could save themselves a lot of time and money by doing a bit of research and by reading the forum to get good advice, which, to be fair, a great many do.
Take Waffen SS for example. It's only really the cufftitle which denotes a particular unit, yet 99% of the time, SS wear a camo smock anyway. Therefore, the Waffen SS look (putting a few variances in smock type aside), is good for almost ANY game for ANY period of the war, regardless of the unit portrayed. At Autumn Mist, both 9th and 16th SS were present, yet, because they all wore either smocks or dot44, you couldn't tell which was which. So, it's equally easy for the SS players to portray ANY Waffen SS formation, because, in battle, they'd all look the same anyway!
I think the vast majority of CiA players can do several "looks" and it's a bit arrogant of anyone to expect every game to cater for every player without them making some sort of effort. I'd rather have small, historically accurate games, where everyone involved makes the effort to immerse themselves in the period and follow the game plan, than huge hollywood type games, where you can have Brit line infantry fighting alongside Commandoes, SAS, marines, 101st airborne and roman legionaries.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Well all our gear is unbadged and it's nice to find out we're actually historically accurate (for a change)! This means we can do - Brit Infantry, Airborne, Commando, US Infantry or Airborne, and Russian Infantry.
One day I will give German army infantry a go, but at the moment I don't want to miss out on playing with the brits.
Each to their own but I think accusing other people of ruining your gaming experience by not wearing the correct badge is a bit harsh really. In my view it's better to have a few more people playing than suggesting/hinting that they should stay at home because a 2" badge (invisible at 20 paces) is historically wrong.
I'm pretty sure the SS weren't involved in absolutely every engagement ever either, and I can't recall there being brits at Bastogne, but I don't remember much debate about them being included.
Yes, things have moved on, but before alienating half the player base, bear in mind there's still a relatively small pool of people into this lark.
agreement with A'n'B. I am one of the allied/german players but it tend to play 101st now cos of Dog Co. its just nice to go with mate and have a laugh. Look at the 16th SS boys, no one complains when the sandy psychos turn up, their game play just adds to the fun.
whos sig says " are you having a laugh, if not why not." If the scenario warrants changing badges ( ie total historical acurate games PBI ect), then cool, but really I'm lazy and after sewing 4 german and 2 yank kit, I hate sewing.
P
I think it should be remembered that Gadge's original point was one of interest, an inquiry into why people do maintain an attachment to playing solely a certain unit etc, and not about 'policy'.
Yes there are people who are just starting, or want a taster or such, but that is not most of 'us'. We're all nuts and have more WWII clothes then normal clothes in our wardrobes... Or I do at least. 
Wladek is right - this has wandered from Gadge's question. (I knew it would and I have written THREE replys to this topic but not submitted 'cos it was getting a bit silly and tempers get raised.)
Still, Imp has one of the answers - he can't be arsed to swap badges! I'm going to the trouble of changing my badges for the next event that I'm going to because I care. And because my wife is doing the sewing for me.
Right a more considered reply to the question Gadge poses:
Players clearly want different things from games - some want a blat in the woods and others want something closer to reality. There is no right or wrong and there are all shades in between. Therefore to some it doesn't matter about being accurate to a scenario, it's just another game to go to. As long as they are wearing the kit they want to wear then that's all that matters.
When CiA kicked all this off there was very little chance of being picky, there just weren't enough players in the UK to make a fully authentic battle - they didn't have the uniforms and there wasn't the weaponry available. It was a shot in the dark to see if it was possible to run a WW2 game without bods turning up in DPM. And it was.
Now three years or so on, with more and more events being held it becomes possible to give players more or less exactly what they want - tightly focussed, historically accurate battles through to 'turn up in what the feck you like and have a laugh' airsoft games. This is good. Good for the WW2 genre and good for the players. Choice is always good, everyone is a winner.
Now then, inevitably the cry goes up - aimed squarely at CIA - 'hey, what about inclusivity' (ironically from someone who hasn't been to a CiA battle and has a particularly high standard of kit). Look, we have done our bit. Why would four people put hundreds of hours and not inconsiderable amounts of personal cash into running games for the benefit of others if they aren't games the CiA team want to play? The bar is being set higher - we want more and we want better and there is a section of the player base who do too.
We are seeing more and more game opportunities popping up - player run and site run. You will see many more games coming up in the south, there is loads of stuff going on in Scotland and Wales. Players are spoilt for choice. In each case though its not the players that make the rules its the game organisers. If the rule set isn't to your liking then no worries, plenty of other stuff going on.
Still, CiA is faithful to it's original principal which, for those that don't know are:
Non-profit making and site independent
Organise WW2 games that follow a 'film-sim' principle (restricted ammo, authentic uniforms and weapons, period props) giving a high degree of suspension of belief
Clear and consistent rules for CiA and CiA supported games
Encourage site owners to run like-minded WW2 games
Create a hub for WW2 airsofters to share their enthusiasm
Forge links between suppliers, sites and players
Keep an 'friendly and inclusive' approach rather than 'elitist and stitch-counting'
This very forum is a shining example of that - everyone is welcome and the posts and subject matter reflect all shades and depths of generalisation to specialisation. Furthermore all non-CiA games are promoted by commercial organisations free of charge, all costs being borne by CiA. It is through diversion and expansion that this hobby will grow. Please don't knock it else you will find WW2 airsoft based battles will go the way of the mainstream reeactment scene, and at times that ain't pretty.
As David says, he's summed up exactly our feelings on the matter.
My own thoughts re kit and sttitiude I expressed here recently
agreement with A'n'B. I am one of the allied/german players but it tend to play 101st now cos of Dog Co. its just nice to go with mate and have a laugh. Look at the 16th SS boys, no one complains when the sandy psychos turn up, their game play just adds to the fun.
whos sig says " are you having a laugh, if not why not." If the scenario warrants changing badges ( ie total historical acurate games PBI ect), then cool, but really I'm lazy and after sewing 4 german and 2 yank kit, I hate sewing.
P
I have to agree. Since Joining Dog Company. Its been the best 6 months, we're a great group of guys getting alot of exposure (thanks to Ai). Totaly historic accuracy isn't for me. I do it for the friendship, i do it for the great laughs. The boozy coversations round the fire. And the awesome fighting we do on game days.
I cant help that im 'Airborne All the Way'. Its just me.
To answer Gadges original question, perhaps its the football team syndrome. I really believe that it adds to fun. a bit of friendly rivally, which just adds to the athmosphere. The fact that its not real and as Big says end of game we all sit down and have a beer. People like to be part of something. team, club,ect. A feeling of inclusivness is part of the human condition. why would it no be the same in airsofting.
I seam to rember Lightning having lots of Booze, Laughter and a roaring fire. Followed by everyone looking right. 
I think the problem is people are taking a leap of assumption that you either have to be accurate or have fun and neveer the twain will meet, which is utter codswollop.
I would have thought CiA was the club.
Personally having played on both allied and axis sides in equal measure i think you miss oout a lot by not gaming with everybody once in a while.
You dont really get to know a player too well if all you do is see them down a gunsight but sharing a foxhole under a hail of bbs gives you a new perspective.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
